How about a dose of personal responsibility?

Posted by: Pc3 on Tuesday, March 3rd, 2009

I heard an interesting report about the economy Friday morning on the way to work. It was on Morning Edition on NPR.

The entire story is found here and is titled Taxpayer Beware: Bank Bailout Will Hurt

David Beim, a former banker who is now a professor at the Columbia Business School, has something to say for people who want to pin this whole thing on the banks.

He has a chart illustrating how much debt American citizens owe, how much we all owe — with our mortgages and credit cards — compared with the economy as a whole. For most of American history, that consumer debt level represented less than 50 percent of the total U.S. economy, as measured by gross domestic product.

And then …

"From 2000 to 2008, it's almost a hockey stick. It just goes dramatically upward," Beim says. "It hits 100 percent of GDP. That is to say, currently, consumers owe $13 trillion when GDP is $13 trillion. That is a ton."

This has happened before. The chart shows two peaks when consumer debt levels equaled the GDP: One occurred in 2007, the other in 1929.

And that scares Beim.

"That chart is the most striking piece of evidence that I have that what is happening to us is something that goes way beyond toxic assets in banks. It's something that has little to do with the mechanics of mortgage securitization, or ethics on Wall Street, or anything else," Beim says. "It says: The problem is us. The problem is not the banks, greedy though they may be, overpaid though they may be. The problem is us."

I don't agree with a lot of what the guys in the article are espousing but they sure have that one point correct. WE as a people have caused this collapse. Living on debt. Living beyond our means.

The current "crisis" is nothing more than the note being called on a national scale.

Agree or disagree? If you agree what are you doing to revitalize the economy by getting out of debt?

If you disagree why?

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28 Responses to “How about a dose of personal responsibility?”

Gail Says:
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:43 am

Agree…completely.

That is why my family carries NO, ZILCH, ZERO, NATTA…debt at ALL. Not even a morgage. And, I might add, we do this on a lower income salary.

I’m not looking for praise. I don’t want a pat on the back. We didn’t do anything great or grand. All we did/do is live with in our means.

Emily@remodelingthislife Says:
March 3rd, 2009 at 9:54 am

I heard it when it was on and totally completely agree. I am still confused if what got us into this mess is that we (in general) caused this by living falsely and beyond our means by borrowing more than we could afford, then why is what they keep saying will fix it to get the banks lending again and us borrowing again? Wouldn’t the real answer be to create more true wealth and stop relying so much on the false wealth that borrowing creates? I’m not in debt and don’t live beyond my means so maybe that’s why it’s easier for me to say that I agree that we, as consumers, were a huge part of the problem. It’s easier to blame the banks than to look at ourselves and our own part in it.

Deb Burton Says:
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:32 pm

Emily’s right, a vicious circle is being set up to cater to the American public’s greed and perceived need to maintain and upgrade our lifestyles. Greed in general has taken over every facet of our lives. We can’t go into a fast food place without having “biggie” selections pushed hard. The average consumer feels they have to upgrade to a bigger house, better electronics, nicer cars and more expensive amenities in order to fit in and be part of the ‘beautiful’ people.

But we’re following the wrong role models. Times are very tight for us right now. Even tho’ we are also debt-free, my husband lost his job, and the job he has now does not quite cover the meager expenses we have. Nonetheless, I suspect that when things get worse before they get better, we may end up in better shape than many, just because we’re very deliberate about how we live.

Living within our means is not popular and can be difficult, but if you’re talking about the survival of your family, it’s essential.

Frugal.Homemaker.Plus Says:
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:36 pm

I agree. My husband and I were shouting Amen to a lot of what those guys were saying.

We have two debts- my husband’s student loans from undergrad and our mortgage. God willing, the student loan will be paid off this year so we can focus on the house. This is the only debt we’ve ever been in.

I think we need to change our spending habits as a country. We can’t keep going on spending in these wasteful ways. It’s terrible for the planet, it’s terrible for us. I’ve also never understood how an economy built on debt works. Recent events seem to show that it doesn’t.

Danielle Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 4:54 am

I’ll be the new voice here. I’m one of the “in debtors” and agree with the article whole-heartedly. I made my mess, I’m cleaning it up. I know the principles to living debt free and how to be financially successful.

My husband and I started our business and this is where the debt started. We weren’t the one’s living beyond our means to “get things” we were creating a business so that our children would have a better life….that in and of itself does create debt BUT then with the busyiness that starting your own business creates we dropped the ball on a lot of the principles that we are FULLY aware of.

We don’t want to be “bailed out” of our situation but we’d also like everyone else (including the banks and car companies, etc.) to clean up their own mess! I don’t want our government running any more than they do already (because honestly, I think they screw it up, Republican or Democrat).

What we’re doing now is getting back the the principles that we know work, give (tithe) 10%, Save 10% (although we’re increasing that), pay our bills and live on the rest. Coupon clipping and being smart about sales has become my new hobby.

Frugal.Homemaker.Plus Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 8:57 am

Danielle, thanks for sharing your story!

The best part about debt and money is that it is rarely too late- you can always turn back and correct mistakes!

I think some people become paralyzed when they see what they owe and just don’t do anything about it- it’s too big, they can never get out, etc. I subscribe to the theory that few things are impossible as long as you work hard at it, and that few situations have no way out. :)

It’s refreshing to see a problem solver like you and your family. I wish you luck as you continue on your journey.

Danielle Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

Thanks, I do see how people could be paralyzed by these situations and I do see (only too well) how people who are already in over their heads would be enticed when credit card companies are still throwing money at them…the thought “things will be better in a year” sneaks into your mind. When mortgage companies are offering no interest mortgages you start to think, ‘hey that’s the extra money I needed to keep this business going for the next year and when business picks up it’ll be easy to pay it all off…’
These are thought patterns that get people in trouble the “somedays” don’t always come; preparation and careful planning work SO much better…of course this is all in hindsight! But I take it as a lesson learned and am here to help others out with my experience hopefully those who need to hear it REALLY listen.

Thanks again this is a great site!

pc3 Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 11:47 pm

@Gail

That is impressive in this day and age. We are down to our mortgage debt. In this economy (or any) debt free is the way to be!

@Emily@remodelingthislife
These 2 videos explained a lot to me about what’s going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mKE16Exh9k&eurl=http://www.mattchancey.com/blog/%3Fp%3D272

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoxDyC7y7PM&feature=channel_page

pc3 Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

@Deb Burton
A wise man once said ” I have learned to be content no matter what condition I find myself in”
Lack of contentment is a large part of our problem as I see it.

pc3 Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 11:57 pm

@Frugal.Homemaker.Plus
You said “I’ve also never understood how an economy built on debt works. Recent events seem to show that it doesn’t.”

It doesn’t it work and the more we or our government try to tamper with the markets, the longer they delay the inevitable, the hard I’m afraid the fall will be.

pc3 Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 12:03 am

@Danielle

I tip my hat to you. It is never easy to change course like you all are doing. We have been there in the past and I can tell you the payoff is worth all the difficulty that change seems to bring!

MamaBear Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 8:42 am

The entire idea of not spending money that you don’t have is sadly a foreign concept to many Americans in 2009. After more than a decade of “putting it on plastic” and paying minimums only, the concept that the note would come due is beyond a lot of folks. From $61K in non-mortgage debt, we are down to $6K and hope that will be zero by the end of this year. We are thrilled that our son and his wife have never been in debt and plan to stay that way (thank you Dave Ramsey!)

Sarah Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 9:01 am

There are some out there trying to do the right thing with their debt situation (like my family) and yet there are others who find it is the governments responsibilty to take care of us when WE make the mess. We, as Americans, are SPOILED!!! Maybe some people need to see what happens when they get themselves in too deep. On election day this past year, I heard a woman on the radio from my state say that she is voting for Obama, because then she won’t have to worry about paying her car payment or worry about paying for insurance anymore. He was going to take care of us! Ugh!!! This is what the US has come to be, and it scares me!

Monique Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 10:36 am

Amen, how about some personal responsibility. We were signing closing documents for our house in 2003 and our mortgage broker was telling us she’d seen a mortgage approved for someone that was 65% of their income. Sure, you can blame the bank for approving them for that much, but who, in their right mind, signs away that much of their paycheck every month? We carry a mortgage and a vehicle loan but the interest rate on our vehicle is low and we have more than enough cash to pay it off in other investments. We carry debt, but we do it responsibly, and we certainly wouldn’t ever dream of the government bailing us out if we ever came up short. That’s what our savings accounts are for!

Pc3 Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

The video below makes the point rather well :)

pc3 Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

@Mama Bear
Thanks for sharing your story! I needed the encouragement today.

Danielle Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

@Mama Bear
How long did it take you? Besides the normal advice do you have any other tips that you found along the way?

Great Story btw.

Danielle Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

@pc3
Thanks for the words of encouragement. It’s times like these that we find out what we’re really made of. Glad I’m made of the good stuff LOL!

Pc3 Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

@Sarah
Personal responsibility is not currently en vogue on the national scene, however I believe the renewed interest in frugality shows that many people are willing to take personal responsibility .

@Monique
Very good point about the loan. No one forces you to borrow more than you can pay back.

Who is responsible? | Life In a Shoe Says:
March 6th, 2009 at 11:01 am

[...] at Frugal Hacks I posted a link to an interesting article from NPR on the [...]

caryn verell Says:
March 6th, 2009 at 4:19 pm

i just finished reading “the forgotten man” a new history of the great depression by amity shlaes. it was very enlightening to say the least. i have been researching and studying the great depression years as well as paying attention to many oral histories as well. this economic mess we are currently in is gonna get worse and anything a person can do to lessen the pain to come should be done…personal responsibilty comes with being frugal, being out of debt, and living below your means. dont’ let your wanters be bigger than your getters… the rewards for having it all and having it now just are not worth it!

Robynn's Ravings Says:
March 6th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

Food for thought. Those who are paying back their loans are learning and sacrificing. Many won’t and won’t care. Everyone could see this bubble was going to pop. How could it not?! Repurpose, reuse, resell, bless, give. We all have SO much.

Pc3 Says:
March 7th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

@caryn verell
AMEN!

@Robynn’s Ravings
You are right is was a bubble that was going to pop, but it was also a bubble that did not have to be. If we had taken personal responsibility sooner. Right most of what I hear from the median at large is how the Federal Government is going to take care of (read responsibility for) the mess

Kathy Says:
March 8th, 2009 at 11:49 am

I totally agree with citizens living well beyond their means.
We have no debt other than a very few hospital bills, when we want something that is outside our budget, we create more cash, work harder, smarter, find ways to acquire those extras besides credit.
We heard the prophicies of this style of living back in the 70′s and thought it was bad enough then, but never dreamed of this magnitude of indulgences.
Thanks for this website and a handful of other great ones, that we are not looked down on that we live within our means, frugality is positive characteristic to have.

Jocelyn Says:
March 10th, 2009 at 12:56 pm

Let me just say, Hear hear! And give a for exmple.
For example, a good friend of mine pulled into my driveway a few weeks ago in a brand-new Nissan. I, knowing their financial situation, said, “who’s car is that?” She said, “Ours.” In response to my quizzical look, she said, “Oh, we couldn’t afford to pay cash for a decent used car, so we are leasing this one.”
Ah, and there it is.
XOXO
Joce

drd Says:
March 13th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

It’s the fault of the banks and elites who run them. Completely. If you told me that you were in trouble because you were in trouble because you had charged up your credit card to buy luxuries, then I would blame you for your personal crisis. But the blame for the world’s current crisis is all the banks. Why? Well, the number of bad loan candidates is a certain percentage of population. These “bad” people always exist. The banks made loans to these people, exposing the rest of the economy to an increased default rate. This in turn affects people that are perfectly responsible; some of these are driven over the edge because they never planned for such a catastrophe.

A certain percentage of the population will always be bad loan candidates. It is the responsibility of banks to minimize the exposure to these people. Nothing to do with personal responsibility.

kimc Says:
March 14th, 2009 at 10:47 pm

@drd
No one makes people take loans they can’t afford. Period. Full stop.

No one coerces men and women to take adjustable rate mortgages that we won’t be able to make the payments on when the rates go up.

No one forces anyone to refinance their house in order to pay for big ticket luxuries – vacations, tvs, sending their kids colleges they can’t afford.

These are the kinds of things that led to this crisis that could have been avoided with a little personal responsibility.

Lynn Says:
March 19th, 2009 at 8:24 pm

We live in San Diego, Calif. I can’t tell you how many illegals bought homes here with forged No Doc. loans. The banks totally knew these people could not pay for these loans after the teaser rates expired. The government put pressure on these lending intitutions to give loans to EVERYONE. I guess the buyers figured why rent for $1800.00 a month when I can buy a house I can’t afford for the same price. They never dreamed that
their home’s inflated equity could ever drop.Living within your means sure seems wise now!

 

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